MOTHER JONES BY E-MAIL
Primary Color Ed Note The Psychologists Dilemma Torture Playlist Reality TV: Voluntary Confinement Gitmo Tell-All Department of Pre-Crime Assasination Chain of Command Additional Articles Torture Hits Home: Resources Intro Intro Am I A Torturer? Abu Gharaib's Last Trial Kidnapped by the CIA Torture Timeline

Am I a Torturer?

Page 3 of 3


TOOLS

EmailE-mail article
PrintPrint article




BACKTALK

E-mail the editor





Google


RELATED ARTICLES

RE:ACTION

Five miles down from Cumberland, Cresaptown, home to the 372nd Military Police Company's headquarters, is little more than the junction of U.S. Highway 220 and Route 53. There's no town hall, the civic improvement center is shuttered, and old toys sit forgotten on the front porches of houses behind low wire fences. It's only a few steps from Pete's Tavern to the Big Claw bar and the Eagles Club, which a few years back launched a minor scandal by admitting a black man. ("He may be a nigger, but he's also a cop," one Pete's regular told me, "so they had to let him in.")

Driving down the hill into Cresaptown, the first thing you notice is the sweeping expanse of glimmering barbed wire and corrugated metal buildings that house the roughly 1,700 inmates and 500 employees of the Western Correctional Institution. The 161-acre property used to be the Celanese factory, where you could swim in the public pool for a quarter. Next door is the brand new $24.8 million prison, built by out-of-state contractors and lauded as a state-of-the-art maximum-security facility. The 372nd's inconspicuous brick building is down the road, past the Liberty Christian Fellowship, the technical high school (whose sign declares "teamwork" the word of the month), and the Boy Scout building.

On most afternoons you'll find John Kershner, a sergeant with the 372nd, sitting at the Big Claw smoking his usa brand menthols with his change lined up on the bar, ready for his next dollar-fifty Miller Lite. The night I was there "Sarge" was talking more than he had in a while, he admitted. He was polite in an old-time kind of way, making a point of taking off his well-worn Eagles Club hat indoors, revealing a balding shaved head. His light blue eyes were shielded behind his thick glasses. Sarge knows Darby well; he was the guy who hired him to work off the books at his self-storage-construction company after the two served together in Bosnia—though it was Darby who told me about this later, not Kershner. "People here feel more hurt by this whole thing than anything," Sarge whispered into my ear. "I just wish Darby would shut his mouth and let the rest of us move on."

Sarge had to sell his construction business when he deployed to Iraq. Now employers tell him he's either overqualified or, at a war-weathered 56, too old. He's been filing for his veterans benefits for two years now but continues to get the runaround. He knows what most everyone in the bar does for a living—he's a roofer, he's a pharmacist, she's a beautician. "I'm not saying that the photos were correct," one of the other patrons, his work boots still muddy, told me. "But our people had their heads cut off."

"Other countries can torture our men to death and it's okay, but if we drop one decimal dip below our standards, you have guys paying the price," Sarge said. "Now you need permission to even shoot back when you're under attack. You let them win there, and we'll be fighting here next."

There is a peace group in Cumberland. It's spearheaded by Larry Neumark, the Protestant chaplain at local Frostburg State University whose cardigan sweaters and soft voice conjure up Mr. Rogers. Early on in the war, the group—mostly composed of faculty from Frostburg and nearby community colleges, who clung to each other as a "lifeline"—struggled for attention. "You'll be accused of being unpatriotic and un-American if you speak up," said Neumark. A local college has rejected courses with "peace" in the title as unpatriotic. "But in the last six to seven months people have been more willing to talk."

When I first visited Cumberland in December 2006, Neumark told me that he had caught hell for inviting Ray McGovern, a retired cia officer, to speak on campus against the war. By last spring, he was having a hard time filling the pro-war slot on a panel discussion he was setting up. Torture, though, was another story. Neumark had proposed a discussion about the topic, but people were "very on edge" about it, as Daniel Hull, a member of the group, told me. Even the activists were split on whether they should "go in that direction."

Eventually Neumark did pull together his panel, featuring a man who had been tortured in the Philippines during the Marcos regime. About 100 students, many of them earning class credits, listened to him recall mock executions and solitary confinement. One student argued that the Geneva Conventions were outdated. "Has fear been used to effectively deaden our critical senses?" Neumark asked. An audience member stomped out. In the back someone snoozed. "Torture is a form of terrorism," offered Neumark. "Why do you think people aren't speaking out about this?" No one had an answer.

In ben's two-bedroom apartment in a suburban complex, the shades are always down and the lights are dimmed. An Ikea rug covers the cheap wall-to-wall carpeting, Yellow Tail wine bottles line the mantle, Aristotle and Dostoevsky serve as toilet reading, and a large-screen TV with a PlayStation 2 dominates the living room. Ben shares the place with Brandon, who circumvented the postwar job problem by taking a civilian job at the nearby Army base. He seems more stereotypically military than Ben, with wide biceps, close-cropped hair, and a closetful of Army T-shirts. But he writes poetry and acoustic songs about things such as post-traumatic stress and how he almost reflexively hit his girlfriend one day and never regained her trust.

One afternoon, with a sitcom on TV and his dog skidding around the sofa, I grilled Ben about torture. After returning from Iraq, he studied the philosophical theories surrounding the issue to prepare for just these kinds of conversations—particularly in case he ever got to talk to Senator John McCain, to whom he'd written during the drafting of the Detainee Treatment Act. We discussed the ticking-time-bomb argument—the hypothetical challenge arguing the morality of torturing someone who knows where a bomb is hidden—which Ben called "total bullshit" since "we aren't living in some fantasy 24 kind of world where those sorts of situations occur." Besides, he said, torture will induce false confessions. And most of the detainees at Tiger didn't even have anything to confess; like 70 to 90 percent of those jailed across Iraq, according to a 2004 Red Cross report, they'd been arrested by mistake.

When the Abu Ghraib photos came out, Ben was on a trip around Europe. He pretended to be Canadian, and the whole thing pained him—because he's a patriot, and because the images brought back memories. "It was like a bad nostalgia," he said. "But it was also embarrassing. I just didn't want to be associated with it."

When I asked Ben if Brandon judged him for what he did in Iraq, he said they don't really talk about it. "It's two separate parts of our lives and we keep it that way," Ben explained. "It's like, 'Iraq sucked. Now get on with it.'" He said he doesn't talk about it to anyone close to him—he'd tell his mom, he said, but she has never asked and he doesn't want to bother her.

His girlfriend, Gretchen, flat out doesn't want to know. Gretchen trained Ben as a teller at the bank. She's gorgeous, with long dark hair and tall leather boots. Within a week, they were making out; six months later, she's sure he's the one. They seemed too young to be talking about marriage, until I saw their friends with kids, mortgages, and ex-spouses.

I asked Gretchen if we could have coffee. "It's not like I know anything about what happened over there," she said. "I probably should, but he doesn't talk about it, and I don't want to think about it." Gretchen blushed when she asked me what Abu Ghraib was. ("She doesn't know much about politics," commented Ben, "and that's to put it nicely.") "I realize I'm naive," she said. "I get upset about stuff that's sad on TV." She didn't have a "real opinion about the war. I figure the people in charge know more, so I trust them."

But Gretchen did know how Ben would "tear up" sometimes, like when he was fired from the bank, even though he said it was no big deal, or how he only stayed for five minutes when he visited his dad's grave, or how he used to wake up in the middle of the night shouting. She thought Ben liked her not being political because she didn't argue with him. I thought he liked the escape.

When i was in Little Rock in January 2007, Ben was chastising himself for not having spoken out more about the war. He had just bought a new Web domain, WaitingToPanic.net, to consolidate his blogs and had big plans for building his veterans site, Operation Comeback, into a full-on grassroots movement. Human Rights Watch had encouraged him to work for them, and he thought that was a great idea. But he was also excited about cheap properties in the area, and when he got upset by our conversations about Iraq, he told me he'd been trying to "block it out a little bit."

A year later, when I checked in with him again, he had bought a brand new three-bedroom house in Lonoke, the town where he'd grown up. Gretchen had moved in with him. He was working with the military as a communications expert—the "resident computer geek," as he put it—at the local base. He was up for a promotion to Warrant Officer candidate. His new website was blank and he hadn't posted on his blogs in months. And Senator McCain had never called.

"I'm told that I'm courageous for speaking out," he said. "But I wonder if I get blamed enough for the bad things I've done. Did I stand up enough? Using a situation to justify it, like I did, doesn't make it right. It's the sense of being helpless that still weighs heavily on my soul."

*Correction appended: An earlier version of this story mischaracterized the findings of a Pew survey and several post-9/11 surveys, which we cited to show the percentage of Americans who would justify the use of torture. The language in the piece has been changed.

Photo: Sarah Wilson


 

Post a Comment

Your Name: 

Your Comment: 
 
Please press "Submit" only once to avoid double-posting.
All HTML formatting is removed from comments.
Read the Mother Jones community rules here.

Comments:

I will forever remember the Pentagon, White House, et al hiding behind PFC Lynndie England's skirts. I will forever remember the HATE (it was reported in the media that Lynndie was not welcomed at Fort Bragg) - and how her baby was demeaned at birth at Fort Bragg. Who thought holdhing her hearing at Fort Bragg was a good idea? Turns out, it wasn't a good idea and was sent to Texas.
Posted by:myrakMarch 3, 2008 2:54:14 PMRespond ^
The Quran quotes Queen of Sheba saying thus, 'She said: Surely the kings, when they enter a town, ruin it and make the noblest of its people to be low, and thus they (always) do (link: http://en.knowquran.org/koran/27/)'.

Ben could take comfort in the above passage by understanding that it is the nature of war. Redemption comes after realizing your mistake and making amends for it.
Posted by:MRMarch 3, 2008 7:46:46 PMRespond ^
It's a very sad story. I have no sympathy whatsoever for someone who can't/won't/didn't think the Iraq war through. Deal with it.
Posted by:ObserverMarch 4, 2008 11:15:00 AMRespond ^
Sorry, but you'd hang at Nueremberg. Following orders has never been an excuse and I don't make up the rules.
Posted by:genevaMarch 5, 2008 11:58:51 AMRespond ^
What would have happened if George Bush had never invaded Iraq? What would have happened if these young men and women had never been given the assignment,much less the orders and encouragement, to behave that way to another human being? Why weren't the president and vice-president impeached and sent to the Hague for trial along with Rumsfeld? An invertebrate Congress is as much to blame as anyone in the big picture. But "the correction officer in me" line also reminds us that some Americans can be as sadistic as any other nationality. Those people will always find the easiest way to be what they are. As for the rest of us, like the young soldiers profiled in this article, they will either remain in conflict and take a stand or not. But unlike these soldiers, we didn't sign up for whatever the current government was advocating and don't have to remember the stink of suffering and barbarism. Personally, I think it would help them sleep to know that those really in charge were held accountable.
Posted by:lindaMarch 5, 2008 2:18:33 PMRespond ^
Brandon's story is the exact same story of everything that went on at Abu Ghraib down to a murder committed by the CIA.

We are bad apples because of those pictures but if not for those pictures some family would not even know there father/husband/brother etc.. had been murdered in prison by the CIA and dayshift MP's (not us who were charged). I guess Brandon and many other Mp's were lucky they already had enough scapegoats for one scandal.

Darby had no idea what orders were being given and what was going on in the prison as his overweight sorry butt was assigned to the TOC. He was a convient hero for the gov.
Thanks for speaking of things of which you had absolutely no clue.

www.supportmpscapegoats.com
Posted by:Megan GranerMarch 5, 2008 5:21:38 PMRespond ^
To answer the question...YES.

But you are a victim of the most corrupt and criminal administration in the history of this country.

You essentially had to follow orders or risk retaliation. I do not know what I would have done under similar circumstances as I do not know what my options would have been.

I do know this, ALL officers that condoned these actions all the way up to the Shrub, should be tried and convicted of war crimes.

To make matters worse it is well documented that actions as you were required to take DO NOT WORK to get valid information. These are actions of a psycopathic nation.
Posted by:Shrub the War CriminialMarch 5, 2008 6:57:17 PMRespond ^
I read this story and thought it was something new. But sadly, it is the same old material, hashed around a bit, and put out as another story, old news rewritten
Posted by:robert okaneMarch 5, 2008 10:16:36 PMRespond ^
I have to agree with the person who said "you'd hang at Nuremberg. How is is that you are not afforded the rank of human being until you are upgraded from "detainee" to "prisoner of war". This war has no actual "prisoners", only victims. We victimize them, and our military victimizes our own.
Posted by:PeacekeeperMarch 6, 2008 3:26:38 AMRespond ^
You were a willing participant in an illegal war. It's an all volunteer force. You should be tried and convicted as a war criminal.

As I'm often fond of saying, "F*U*C*K the Troops!
Posted by:DrBonesMarch 6, 2008 7:50:21 AMRespond ^
Something seems wrong with the training. Maybe the USA is not used to what it means to occupy a country. While Bush/Cheney are responsible for this atrocious war, I strongly doubt that they would have given this kind of instructions to act. It would be easily traceable and would implicate them directly. To me it seems like military training these days fails to address the issue of how to treat prisoners properly. Or at the very least the lessons didn't sink in.
Posted by:MalMarch 6, 2008 8:07:40 AMRespond ^
Where can I find the criticisms of the terrorists? I've been looking all over this site and all that I can find are a bunch of people posting comments about how rotten this country is. No this country is not perfect, and when held up in the light of non-existent utopia, sure it shows flaws. But utopia is a fairy tale and this is still the best country that has come along yet.
F.U.C.K the troops? Really? Seriously? If you feel so strongly then you should act on your feelings and leave. It is a free country. There are no walls keeping you in bro. If there's a better place out there then go. Find your happy place. I guess that the price of freedom for me is having the knowledge that there are idiots like you; taking for granted all of the blessings that you've been given.
Posted by:normalMarch 6, 2008 9:47:58 AMRespond ^
For "normal":

"Where can I find the criticisms of the terrorists?"

And why is it those terrorists exist, with their goals of terrorizing? And why are they targeting certain governments? Don't tell me you're one of those who believes the "they hate our freedom" tripe.

"But utopia is a fairy tale and this is still the best country that has come along yet."

One of the points of criticizing this country is that the wealth and prosperity of this country has all too often come at the expense and detriment of others. Just trace the reasons for current anti-U.S. terrorism and find a few examples of that.

"If you feel so strongly then you should act on your feelings and leave. It is a free country. There are no walls keeping you in bro."

Hilarious.

"taking for granted all of the blessings that you've been given."

You take the foundation of your country for granted. You obviously are convinced that it is not largely founded upon the suffering and destruction of other cultures.

Get real.
Posted by:JDMarch 6, 2008 2:31:14 PMRespond ^
You obviously have no grasp of the true history of the USA or the fact that there are other countries treat their citizens like humans not automatons. There are other counties that keep their nose out of other people's business.

Grow up and get a life.
Posted by:GGMarch 6, 2008 4:40:42 PMRespond ^
I did leave, so abnormal, IN YOUR FACE!
Posted by:DrBonesMarch 6, 2008 4:43:10 PMRespond ^
It's so funny, all Americans that never left their country think that the USA is the greatest country in the world, but all Americans travelling abroad tend to disagree with that.

So, pack your bag, buy a plane ticket to *somewhere* and learn!
Posted by:localJMarch 6, 2008 11:57:57 PMRespond ^
abba is worse
Posted by:ronMarch 7, 2008 4:26:14 AMRespond ^
fuik deze zeui, als dr 1 de baas is ben ik het.
Posted by:chrisMarch 7, 2008 8:53:05 AMRespond ^
joe ar nothing like me zemmer
Posted by:chrisMarch 7, 2008 8:53:51 AMRespond ^
"F.U.C.K. the Troops" !???! Seriously buddy, if it weren't for the troops you certainly wouldn't even be able to say that and, incidentally, would probably be a "detained" for even thinking it.

So maybe you might want to start thanking the troops instead.
Posted by:KelleMarch 7, 2008 3:14:29 PMRespond ^
Kelle) I can understand your wanting to vouchsafe the troops, but do you actually comprehend what you are saying? The Nation founded on Liberty and Freedom has Thought Police that should lock you away in a stinkhole for thinking bad political thoughts? Doesn't that sound like the Gestapo or PKK or the taliban...?
Posted by:Lew CrissMarch 8, 2008 10:06:04 AMRespond ^
Geneva, you are quick to criticise and a dispassionate soul and need to walk in Ben's shoes for a while before judging him.

DrBones,
Chill out, you are clearly too angry for your own good.
Posted by:OutsiderMarch 8, 2008 6:46:01 PMRespond ^
Dr Bones's pu**y, weenie, GEN-X a** needs to BURN IN HELL for ETERNITY, though that's a bit too good for him!
Posted by:King of ShebaMarch 11, 2008 3:58:47 PMRespond ^
How eager today's Americans are to see our soldiers hang and be accused. How readily they would throw them into the fire without a second thought. How painstakingly they split hairs to defend the terrorists or "freedom fighters". The American people of today, particularly the 20 & 30-somethings are truly unworthy of being defended.
Posted by:splendeMarch 19, 2008 6:58:25 PMRespond ^
It is a war. It's not a nice happy thing. There is no pretty way to do it. So the trick is to stay out of everyone elses country and not start wars. But if we are going to go to a war then people need to understand that these bad things are going to happen. We should bring all the troops back and have them do something worth wile in our country. Send them into bad neighborhods. Fight criminals in citys where the police are strapped and out gunned. Help america not the middle east!
Posted by:chrisMarch 22, 2008 7:49:45 PMRespond ^
US Torture is just a reflection of the people in general. The same sort of mistreatment takes place in the US prisons, where it is all with the approval of the US public. It is no surprise that the US didn’t prosecute the guilty parties and had a few white wash trials to cover up the country’s sins. The same is the case with the US civilian courts as well, where the legal system is based on corrupt judges and a kangaroo court. The exoneration cases in Florida alone is a good testimony of such corruptions
Posted by:A GrunMarch 23, 2008 6:44:51 AMRespond ^
Extremely well-written story, exhaustively researched. Congrats. Very long, though. The details about Gretchen and so on seem superfluous considering the rest of the content. Generally, it could have been edited back by 1000 words or so. There's only so much "color" detail that's relevant. After that it starts to look over-indulgent.
Posted by:RosariaMarch 24, 2008 11:44:00 AMRespond ^
The troops repress freedom and murder. How is it that my ability to speak freely is dependent on them?

You are one shallow, brainwashed individual. BTW, I served in the USAF in the 80's. We weren't war criminals then.
Posted by:DrBonesMarch 25, 2008 7:49:18 AMRespond ^
You shouldn't type on meth or whatever party drug you take.
Posted by:DrBones666March 25, 2008 7:50:37 AMRespond ^
Defended from WHAT?

Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here?

Are you really that simple in the head?

Defend my from the neo-cons. Then they would have my respect.
Posted by:DrBones666March 25, 2008 7:52:47 AMRespond ^
TORTURE IS TORTURE. WORKING AT A PRISON CAMP CAN GET YOU ARRESTED 40 YEARS LATER FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. AND JUST BEING A MINOR GUARD IS NO EXCUSE.. WAR CRIMES ARE WAR CRIMES...PUNISHABLE BY HANGING.
Posted by:J T WALSHMarch 27, 2008 8:01:53 PMRespond ^
@MR-- do you even know what you're talking about? What gives you an intimate understanding of the Quran? By using the Quran as your proof do you seek to justify what happens in Iraq?

Ben should not take "comfort" from that verse. That verse is an insight into the minds of tyrants; Bush, Cheney, and Company.

This isn't something you can blame on human nature as you would have others believe. Torture is not the nature of war. It's the nature of cruelty and oppression, and cowards.

"Redemption comes after you realize your mistake"? Do you really see that in store for the people of Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan?

Ben should hang. His decisions were his own, and he volunteered for this 'mission'. He had the balls to torture a 'detainee' (note: detainee
Posted by:TruthApril 3, 2008 1:23:14 PMRespond ^
As soon as you decide to live by the idea that "the ends justify the means" you lose the right to be considered civilized. I realize that terrorism is a very complex and horrifying problem, but responding with like for like has never, never solved anything. Torture is torture, no matter who uses it on whom. There are no good guys when it comes to abusing your fellow humans, regardless of ideological or religious or political differences.
Posted by:CherylApril 7, 2008 6:50:32 PMRespond ^
While I think the use of torture is absolutely NEVER acceptable and I believe all parties involved need to take full responsibility for their actions (scapegoat or not) - I'm both disturbed and surprised by how many posters have commented that Ben should hang.

These remarks seem to simply highlight a lust for vengeance, a thirst to continue a cycle of violence. There's so much anger on all sides of the issue and it would be an oversimplification of the situation to think of it in black and white. With that mindset, we are one step away from being the guards ourselves.

I would think our goals should not be to seek revenge and take a life for a life, but to seek solutions outside of violence and require the perpetrators of these crimes against humanity to use the rest of their lives to the restoration of civilization through non-violent, non-aggressive, and non-profit means.
Posted by:JustPassingThroughApril 11, 2008 10:12:04 AMRespond ^
to blindly follow orders...sounds like the Holocaust. I have never forgiven Germany for its silent complicity and I will never forgive our own soldiers for theirs.

And as to their leaders. Not worthy of a backward glance.
Posted by:mz fontaineApril 13, 2008 8:37:39 AMRespond ^
Torture does not work. Freedom, Liberty, Justice for ALL, Innocent until proven guilty. Do any of these concepts sound familiar to all of you gunho kill brown people "patriots" out there. And to those who think every MP who was complicit should be hung; Let's get the commanders who are responsible for this and punnish people according to their crimes. Innocent until proven guilty (unless you are still a Republican).
Posted by:unidioticApril 16, 2008 8:52:10 AMRespond ^
Sad to see so many people placing blame on others, and passing judgement without ever being in these soldiers situations. I'm at fault in the regard that I have an opinion that is radical also, but telling someone they shouldn't be given any consolation or berating others for having an opinion that goe against the norm of this tiny thread is just ignorance. Yes, the history upon which this country was flawed, but i'm sure those other countries who "treat their citizens like humans, not automatons" weren't spawned without war, or torture, or sacrifice. Go free speech!
Posted by:DVMay 2, 2008 1:33:52 AMRespond ^
Oustanding post by splende:

"How eager today's Americans are to see our soldiers hang and be accused. How readily they would throw them into the fire without a second thought. How painstakingly they split hairs to defend the terrorists or "freedom fighters". The American people of today, particularly the 20 & 30-somethings are truly unworthy of being defended."

Spot on Splende! Bravo.
Posted by:Did My Part, How 'Bout U?June 4, 2008 9:07:50 AMRespond ^
God No,

He can remember "All men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights . . . " or

"As you do unto the least of them . . . so you do unto me."

Respectfully, these guys respect for coming forward not consolation for having hurt people because they were just following orders.
Posted by:NancyJune 18, 2008 11:47:53 AMRespond ^
I understand that each soldier is responsible for their own actions. At the same time, a greater responsibility is laid on the political leaders who decided to go to war against the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. There are governments that are just as bad (or worse? Myanmar? China?). Is there a link between these conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, the decline in the US Dollar, the rise in oil prices, and Bush's Big Oil interests? How would his request (yesterday?) to open up the US coast for oil-drilling fit into this picture? What did Hamid Karzai (present leader of Afghanistan) do professionally before he was appointed head of the country? Am I seeing a trend or simply creating my own conspiracy?

And while I question myself, it seems apparent that I am often painting many people (soldiers, politicians, Iraqis, etc) with a big brush. Bush is painting the Iranian government one-way. The Iranians are painting Bush (and America) another way. I've been out of America for 18 years, but I still feel that we need to stop swallowing the rhetoric (from both sides) and dig into what's really going on here.
Posted by:knd-irlJune 19, 2008 12:08:16 AMRespond ^
I am against the invasion/occupation of Iraq for a number of reasons, and the inhumane treatment of prisoners is just one more 'bullet' on the list. I think the military got led/shoved into a situation by people with motives that were pure profit, I call it The Mother Of All Snowjobs, I myself was once in an Army uniform, but I've concluded that it's not really that great an institution anymore, fraud, incompetence, no small amount of hubris, and then there's Dick Cheney et. al., yeah, I'm all done being in the service. One thing that's really interesting is how I kept getting these job offers through Careerbuilder to take work in Iraq. Not doing that, either.
The war was about oil. I'll say it again, the war was about oil. We've got oilmen/women in our government today, I think they cooked up quite the sunshine story to facilitate the seizure of Iraq's oilfields, and it kind of blew up in their face, there. The oil-biz itself is fairly crooked to begin with, and, well, it looks like the troops are going to continue to be there for some time. I just hope that Congress reasserts its' lawful authority as a Body to start taking real steps to bring the situation to a close, get our troops out of Iraq and probably some other countries too, and turn our national energies full-force in the direction of energy independence, as well as political reforms such as might be required to prevent a recurrence of Iraq. That's my view.
Posted by:BertJune 21, 2008 7:13:42 PMRespond ^
Scapegoating is a terrible, cowardly practice but that doesn't mean the people labeled "scapegoats" don't also deserve to be tried as war criminals. There is a lot of blood on a lot of hands over this matter and just because some of those hands are trying to pin it on some of those other hands doesn't mean either deserve any kind of respect or clemency.

No sympathy for these scumbags. I hope every last one of these torturing bastards gets stop-lossed and blown to chunks by IEDs.
Posted by:WilliamJuly 15, 2008 7:18:55 PMRespond ^
Conservatives are not human.

They are no better than the dust I walk on.

If they would allow a human being to be treated this way for their insane nationalism, I say [deleted] them; [deleted] every one of them. They are insane, they are frightening, and they are utterly devoid of compassion or integrity.
Posted by:KatharineJuly 15, 2008 7:56:51 PMRespond ^
Katherine,

"Conservatives are not human" Wow! The pot calls the kettle black, for what they both, alas, do lack. Nice to hear your version of compassion and integrity. You are just exchanging one version of hate-mongering for another.

Knd-Irl

Posted by:knd.irlJuly 18, 2008 2:01:49 AMRespond ^
We are just as human and American as liberal Americans, although I do think known anti-Semitic, anti-American terrorists deserve torture at Guantanamo, and by torture, I don't mean loud heavy metal music, since most American teenagers, conservative like me or liberal, like loud heavy metal music.
Posted by:Conservative HumanJanuary 4, 2009 2:21:06 PMRespond ^

Jail.org - Inmate Search
Criminal records, instant public records & people search & current court records. www.jail.org

U.S. Public Records Search
Search County & State Court Records, Criminal records, Vital and Adoption Records www.PublicRecordsInfo.com

Records.com - People Search
Public Records and Background Checks. Instantly Search Criminal Records, Addresses and Court Records www.Records.com

Court Records & County Records
Find Instant Public Records, Criminal Records as Well as County Property Records Search. www.PublicRecordsIndex.com

Real Viagra, Cialis Levitra Deal
Dare to compare our competitive prices. Free overnight delivery to new patients in the US. No catch 22!

Subscribe Now!
Don't lose sight of the facts. Every issue of Mother Jones is loaded with hard-hitting reporting you can't afford to miss.

Big Bang, Little Bucks
Mother Jones Text Links is a great way to get on the site for an affordable price. For more information please click this the headline

End the genocide in Darfur
Every day, Darfuris face rape, murder, and starvation. Be a Voice for Darfur: tell Obama to end the suffering.
















Attention Spans

Pipeline Politics

Entitlements

Joe!


More MoJo voices...



bookIN PRINT

CLICK HERE
for more great reading

headphones IN TUNE
New music every issue

CLICK TO LISTEN

Advertise Liberally

This article has been made possible by the Foundation for National Progress, the Investigative Fund of Mother Jones, and gifts from generous readers like you.

© 2008 The Foundation for National Progress

About Us   Support Us   Advertise   Ad Policy   Privacy Policy   Contact Us   Subscribe   RSS