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Department of Pre-Crime

February 29, 2008

News: Why are citizens being locked up for "un-American" thoughts?



When Attorney General Alberto Gonzales held a press conference in the summer of 2006 announcing the arrests of seven young men for plotting to bomb Chicago's Sears Tower, he sounded defensive, his voice lingering a beat on each thing the men allegedly did. "Individuals here in America made plans to hurt Americans," he claimed. "They did request materials; they did request equipment; they did request funding." Gonzales admitted that the American and Haitian-born men posed "no immediate threat." But, he warned, "homegrown terrorists may prove to be as dangerous as groups like Al Qaeda. Our philosophy here is that we try to identify plots in the earliest stages possible, because we don't know what we don't know about a terrorism plot." It's dangerous, Gonzales added, to make a "case by case" evaluation that "well, 'this is a really dangerous group'; 'this is not a really dangerous group.'"

From the beginning, the allegations seemed bizarre. Allegedly led by Narseal Batiste, an underemployed construction worker, the plotters were an oddball group who dubbed themselves Seas of David. Preaching an eclectic mix of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, the seven men were known around their neighborhood of Liberty City, Miami, for practicing martial arts and wearing Stars of David. Mostly unemployed and with few resources, they seemed an unlikely bunch to blow up a landmark 1,200 miles away.

The more details that emerged about the case, the fishier it looked. The charges had come about because of a 23-year-old Yemeni clerk named Abbas al-Saidi, who'd been a police informant since he was 16. The fbi helped bail him out when he was in jail facing charges of assaulting his girlfriend. A year later, Saidi returned the favor, telling the feds he'd met a young man—Narseal Batiste—who boasted of wanting to create an Islamic state in America.

The fbi hired Saidi to cozy up to Batiste and his followers, and sent in another informant (also charged with domestic abuse), Elie Assad, to pose as an Al Qaeda financier named "Mohammed." Nearly everything Gonzales said the plotters "did" happened at the urging of the two informants, who reportedly earned about $120,000 from the feds for their help. (Assad, originally from Lebanon, was also granted political asylum.)

After Assad boasted of his Al Qaeda connections, Batiste talked of wanting to play a part, but only if Assad helped him first. Batiste gave the fake financier a long list of desired equipment, including "boots—knee high. Automatic hand pistols. Black security uniforms. Squad cars. suv truck—black color." (Not on the wish list: explosives.) Batiste also said he wanted $50,000, explaining in one taped conversation, "I'm exhausted financially. We have nothing." Batiste's lawyers would later argue that his promises of jihad were merely an attempt to scam "Mohammed" out of the money.

A few of the Seas of David men did recon the fbi field office in Miami. But the mission had been conceived by Assad, the van and a digital camera both provided by Assad—that is, the fbi.

When Assad failed to deliver the cash and with the Seas of David growing increasingly skeptical about his claims, he tried to assuage them by swearing them into Al Qaeda, which he did—in a warehouse rented and wired for video by the fbi.

The oath became the government's piéce de rèsistance. Charging the men with multiple counts of attempting to provide material support and secondary charges of conspiracy—which could bring them each 70 years in prison—prosecutors began their closing statements by playing the tape of the Seas of David swearing allegiance to Al Qaeda. When the video ended, Jacqueline Arango, an assistant United States attorney, told the jury, "Ladies and gentlemen, that is material support."

After deliberating for nine days last December, the jury acquitted one man who'd separated himself from the group and moved to Atlanta. But it deadlocked on the others, and a mistrial was declared. A new trial is scheduled for this spring. Until then the six men are in prison, and they and their lawyers are under a gag order. (The same applies to the acquitted man, Lyglenson Lemorin, who's in detention awaiting possible deportation to Haiti even though he's lived here legally for nearly 20 years. Citing privacy laws, the government will not explain why he is being kicked out.)

"I think it may hang again," juror Delorise Thompkins told the Miami Herald. "You're going to find someone always afraid of terrorist groups, but then when you see the evidence, there's not a lot there—no plans, no papers, no pictures, no nothing connecting them to Osama bin Laden." The jury's ambivalence is understandable. The plots were little more than talk encouraged by informants; the central evidence in the case—the taped oath—was a staged fbi production. But then, whether the men were a threat or the plot real doesn't matter when it comes to the charge of material support.

Material-support laws are not like other laws. Central to what the Department of Justice has described as an approach of "strategic overinclusiveness," they have underpinned many of the government's most controversial criminal terrorism cases, from the so-called Lackawanna Six—young men from upstate New York who trained at, and later fled from, a militant camp in Afghanistan—to José Padilla, the man once accused of being a "dirty bomber."

Indeed, look at the heavily criticized "foiled plot" cases over the past few years—the ones with an informant at the center offering encouragement and often much more—and you'll find material support charges underlying nearly all of them. Material-support statutes have been cited to deny thousands of immigrants—some on the run from actual terrorists (see file of "Kumar the Fisherman," above)—entrance into the country and are offered by the Pentagon as justification for detaining hundreds of people at Guantanamo, many of whom have provided little more "support" than being, for example, conscripted to cook for the Taliban.

There's a reason material support has become such a popular charge, a reason it's central to many of the government's most questionable cases: The laws are a prosecutor's dream. They don't require evidence of a plot or even of a desire to help terrorists. They give the government a shot at convictions traditional criminal laws could never provide. "The administration adopted the preventive paradigm, i.e. 'We've got to stop people before they've done something wrong,'" says David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who's the author of several books about the effect of anti-terror laws on the justice system. "There's tremendous pressure to expand grounds of criminal activity, to prosecute people who might represent a threat. The material-support provisions have been the principal vehicle for pushing that envelope."

The question is whether that approach has made us any safer. "The government does not understand how terrorist groups operate," says Michael German, a former counterterrorism agent at the fbi and now counsel for the aclu. "When I was undercover, there were plenty of people who may have been sympathetic to a group but were very clear they didn't want to break the law or get involved in violence. And we didn't go after them." Blurring that distinction by opening the door for prosecutions of people who do little more than express sympathies for a group, argues German, "that's where the material-support provisions go off the rails. The terrorist's goal is to convince everybody he identifies as his community that they are being oppressed. And when the government's response tends to create injustice, the government's fulfilling that prophecy."

The core concept behind the criminal material-support laws—there are two—seems, at first glance, to be straightforward. The first law, passed in 1994 after the first World Trade Center bombing, bans almost any support of terrorist activity. The second law, passed in 1996 in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing, criminalizes knowingly giving support, financial or otherwise, to groups designated as foreign terrorist organizations, even if the money is supposedly earmarked to support peaceful activities—say, a hospital for Hamas.

Think of the laws as "aiding and abetting"—only on steroids. It has always been illegal to support criminal activity. If a man drives a getaway car for bank robbers, then he can be charged for the robbery, too. Prosecutors have simply had to show that there was an intent to further the crime and some meaningful connection between the help and the crime itself.

What the material-support laws did was roll back those requirements. A taxi driver hired for a short drive by a Hezbollah politician—a driver who had no intention of engaging in terrorist activity—would, so long as he knew the politician was with Hezbollah, be guilty of providing material support. That's because the laws that define "material support" contain a long list of often nebulous activities, such as providing "property, tangible or intangible" or "service," and are applied whether or not those activities truly helped advance the cause of a terrorist group, and regardless of the suspect's intentions. The laws make little distinction between the taxi driver and, say, an arms merchant who sells detonators to Hezbollah. The Patriot Act extended the concept further, making it illegal to attempt or conspire to provide material support. Before, prosecutors had to prove you gave support. Now they just have to show you wanted to.

That change, along with other newly exploited vagueness in the existing material-support laws, opened up a whole new path for prosecutors. In the Padilla case and others, the government has argued successfully that a suspect is guilty of attempting to provide material support even if the plot he allegedly supported was purely a government concoction or, just as curious, even if the government hadn't said what group or plot the accused might have been supporting.

Prosecutors have only had to show that the accused expressed interest in helping—as the government puts it—the "global jihad movement." "Under our system you have to show a defendant has done something specific," says Peter Margulies, a national security scholar at Roger Williams law school in Rhode Island. "These charges are really a departure from the usual way of our doing justice."

That departure increases the chance of a screwup. "Fear—a not unreasonable one—of catastrophic harm" provides a great deal of incentive to bring charges against those you suspect might harbor ill will to the United States, says Margulies. "But political violence is a low-incident crime. There just aren't a lot of people making a living as terrorists. When you have a real imbalance like that and you put that together with vague charges, it's a recipe for mistakes. You have to really worry about false positives, about getting things wrong."

The idea for the material-support laws first came in the early 1980s, when, after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut and a string of high-profile kidnappings of Americans abroad, the Reagan administration decided that U.S. law wasn't up to the task of prosecuting people who supported terrorists. Presidents have long had the power to impose embargoes against countries. Shouldn't they be able to do the same against terrorist groups?

Following this logic, the White House proposed to criminalize any training, support, or services to any foreign group designated a national security threat by the secretary of state. The sweeping proposal, which envisioned essentially no oversight, was denounced by both the left and right. A Washington Post editorial opined that the legislation might be used against the anti-communist Contras in Nicaragua. "Use your imagination," it warned. If "a President Mondale were to appoint a Jesse Jackson secretary of state, is it not possible that the Nicaraguan rebels might be designated terrorists?"

Congress enacted the first material-support law—limited to immigration issues—in 1990. It allowed the government to bar any aliens who supported a "terrorist organization" or "activity." Both terms were ill defined, and the first time they were tested, on the L.A. Eight, led to one of the most tortured cases to ever wind its way through the legal system (see their file, above).

It took the 1993 World Trade Center bombing for Congress to put the material-support concept into the federal criminal code. Michael Kraft, a recently retired State Department counterterrorism official, helped draft the law. "The reason for the laws overall was that there wasn't a good way to intercede on fundraising for nonstate actors," he says. "Part of the effort was also to create a deterrence effect. There was a feeling that there was a romanticization of terrorism. European intellectuals occasionally celebrated Red Brigades and Palestinian terrorism. So there was an effort to stigmatize the crime."

The law targeted any support of terrorist activity. But sending money to the ira for an orphanage, for example, wouldn't be illegal. And to law enforcement, that meant the law didn't go far enough. "Every once in a while we'd see a note on a check saying 'Mujahideen,'" jokes Jeff Breinholt, who heads the Department of Justice's terrorist financing unit. "But usually they didn't do that." So in early 1995 the Clinton administration introduced a bill banning the donation of any money, no matter its purpose, to groups designated as foreign terrorist organizations. The idea makes some sense: Should you be allowed to give to the Tamil Tigers' social-services arm? Even if you could be sure the money was going only to build a school, it frees up money for the Sri Lankan guerrilla group to spend elsewhere.

Two months later, when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Congress not only embraced Clinton's proposal, it greatly expanded it. Apart from an exemption for "medicine and religious materials," the new law, part of the 1996 Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, criminalized all knowing support to terrorist-designated organizations—whatever the purpose of that support might be.

From the beginning, civil libertarians criticized the statute's potential for overreach. And federal courts have since ruled that some types of banned support are too vaguely defined—rulings that have largely stemmed from a suit in which a human rights organization sued to teach humanitarian law to a Kurdish group designated as a terrorist organization. (The Supreme Court has yet to weigh in.) In an even more farcical case, brought in 2006, a small-time satellite TV operator in Brooklyn allegedly offered to sell a government informant a satellite dish with access to al-Manar, better known as Hezbollah TV. In turn, the government charged the man, Javed Iqbal, with multiple counts of material support and announced he could face up to 110 years in prison. (The trial is set for June.)

And while most Americans would agree that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, the process for designating groups as such has also drawn scrutiny. The State Department currently lists 42 groups as foreign terrorist organizations. Defendants can't challenge these designations (though the groups themselves can), and while federal judges can overrule the designations, the standards for doing so are high. Federal appeals court Judge Alex Kozinski, a prominent conservative jurist, recently railed against the "patent unconstitutionality" of a process that envisions jail time "for giving money to an organization that no one other than some obscure mandarin in the bowels of the State Department had determined to be a terrorist organization."

While criticism aimed at material-support laws has mostly focused on the scope of the 1996 law regarding providing financial support to groups, the Bush administration has quietly developed an alternate tactic: supercharging the 1994 terrorist activity provision. This new interpretation, writes Robert Chesney, a professor at Wake Forest law school and a leading scholar on material support, "has quietly emerged as perhaps the single most important charge in post-9/11 terrorism prosecutions."

What the administration realized is that the 1994 law could be interpreted to criminalize support of a terrorist conspiracy even when the conspiracy consists not of a concrete plot but rather of, as prosecutors have put it, the "worldwide jihadist movement." "You don't even need to establish 'conspiracy' as we commonly understand it, because you don't have to prove an agreement with anyone," notes William Banks, director of Syracuse University's Institute for National Security and Counterterrorism. The Patriot Act further juiced the law, making it illegal just to try to give support. At its most attenuated, you can be guilty of attempting or conspiring to provide personnel (i.e., yourself) for the preparation of a conspiracy that may or may not exist. "It is possible to indict someone even where the government is entirely unclear as to just what the person may be planning to do," says Chesney. "If it sounds quite broad, it should."

"I'm not sure if a memo went around to U.S. attorneys or what, but they've all been seizing on 2339A," adds Chesney, referring to the section number of the 1994 material-support statute.

Actually, one did. In the summer of 2003, an internal Department of Justice bulletin recommended just such an approach, telling U.S. attorneys that the DOJ "can work with you on this theory and offer sample indictment language." The newsletter was written by Jeff Breinholt from the DOJ's terrorist financing unit. Asked about criticism that the approach is too sweeping, Breinholt says, "Because the object of what you're trying to do is far worse"—that is, terrorism—"it's appropriate to have a standard that's lower than 'aiding and abetting.'"

But how low is too low? Consider the case of a young Pakistani American man named Hamid Hayat from Lodi, California. Hayat was convicted in 2006 of material support even though the government never alleged he was involved in a plot and it never specified which terrorist group he allegedly sought to help. Instead prosecutors focused on what they called Hayat's "jihadi mind" and his confession—which came after an all-night interrogation and was soon recanted—that he had attended a "jihadist" training camp.

Despite qualms from some jurors—one later disavowed her vote, claiming other jurors had pressured her—Hayat was found guilty and sentenced to 24 years in prison (see file above). "If at the end of the day what the government could prove is that Hamid harbored generally ill feelings and got training from some unidentified group," says Chesney, "then the idea that that constitutes a criminal conspiracy is troubling."

Chesney, a highly regarded and cautious scholar, expresses a wary ambivalence about the law. "It's not entirely clear to me that it's the wrong approach," he says. If the laws get gutted, there could be "pressure to move toward the military approach or cia renditions. Even for liberals, there's an incentive to go with the lesser of two evils." And if the greater evil is rejected by the next administration (willingly or at the courts' insistence), that could, paradoxically, mean an embrace of this problematic legal framework that the Bush administration has set up to fight terrorism.

In that case, experts propose reform that could go a long way to making the laws more just, including more carefully calibrated definitions of what constitutes support or a conspiracy, and, one of Chesney's ideas, graduated penalties based on intent. Whether or not such changes would be remedy enough, it is clear that, as currently interpreted, the material-support laws undermine our standards of justice. That's not only a problem for those caught in the government's wide net. It's a problem for all of us.

"The Constitution is, among other things, a counterterrorism strategy," says Michael German, the former fbi agent. "What the framers recognized is that you don't create the perception of repression if you allow people legitimate means for fostering change. The material-support laws criminalize conduct that in and of itself isn't typically criminal, isn't illegal." When you have cases based on such sweeping laws, argues German, "you're ostensibly hurting terrorist organizations, when in fact you're helping them. You're giving people more of a reason to become militant."


Hemant Lakhani — Reuters/Ho/Andrea Shepard; The L.A. Eight — Courtesy Committee 4 Justice; Mohammed Hossain — Reuters/Chip East


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"You're giving people more of a reason to become militant"
‘Chicken and egg’, as per normal. An overreach and a self fulfilling prophecy as well.
Gonzales was a true party hack, who (IMHO) made his station by peddling judicial influence. (Please, no accusations of my being anti Hispanic).
The Bushes and (to a lesser extent) Clintons before, helped set the stage we are now suffering through. But be not confused, further mistakes will not erase our earlier mistakes. The expansive threat from radical Islam should not go unchecked. Plus, I worry less about the civil rights of several dozen street-kooks, then I do about the thousands who have had their liberties stripped by a bought-and-paid-for legal sys. Without the deterrents made possible by a functional Bench and Bar we are all toast in the near future or far.
Posted by:TrollsteinFebruary 28, 2008 10:16:19 PMRespond ^
Just keep repeating 'Bert for president', because I will take issue with this kind of stuff before Congress.
Posted by:BertFebruary 29, 2008 1:15:13 AMRespond ^
it would seem that, under the law as it is written and being applied, this article is itself "guilty" of material support,as are all those who have read it. Hmmm, maybe that is what the camps being built are for -- Gitmo Norths where we can all go and patriotically turn ourselves in?
Posted by:mnparkerFebruary 29, 2008 1:36:35 PMRespond ^
Wow. And the greatest 'terrarist' plot in the history of America goes unsolved. To wit, what REALLY happened on 9/11? As P.T. Barnum aptly said,'There's a sucker borned every minute.'
Posted by:steppenRazorFebruary 29, 2008 4:35:58 PMRespond ^
I have wondered about 911 also. Sorry to say.
Posted by:M. FieldsFebruary 29, 2008 7:41:34 PMRespond ^
I WAS NEVER A 9/11 CONSPIRACY BELUEVER. NOW I AM. IT IS UNBELIEVABLE THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS GOTTEN AWAY WITH SO MUCH. I FIGURE THE DEMS HAVN'T BROUGHT ABOUT IMPEACHMENT CHARGES YET, BECAUSE BUSH WILL JUST PARDON THEM ALL. BUT, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? CAN THEY STILL PROSECUTE THE DOJ, WHITE HOUSE, ETC., AFTER THEY ARE OUT OF OFFICE? WE NEED TO ENFORCE OUR CONSTITUTION, NOT SHRED IT AS THEY HAVE BEEN DOING ALLL ALONG. AND WHAT ABOUT THESE JURORS? THEY MUST HAVE BEEN PICKED FROM A POOL OF LOYAL BUSHIES.
Posted by:MARYMarch 1, 2008 5:23:41 AMRespond ^
I had a personal encounter with (an extended) member of the Saudi Royal family on Sept., 8, 2001. If I had a You-tube video of this guy, that day, to show everyone, it would be perfectly clear who (at least knew) about the attacks BEFORE they occurred.
Generally, Saudis (and especially royal Saudis) have a pervasive revulsion of Hebrews. I know because I have had earlier encounters with other Saudi royals and they don’t like my breathing their air. This sheathing hatred of Jews is, of course not confined to Saudis. Typically, they display their dislike by growing highly uncomfortable, agitated, tense, and avoiding eye-contact. If they are in company of each other, but within ear-shot of the Jewish person, we will hear the topic of conversation switch to Palestine or occasionally, one will hear them even discussing their dislike for Jews, strangely, in English—for the benefit of the listener.
So it was highly bizarre that day, on Sept. 8th, to have this member of the royal family gleeful, proud, in fact ecstatic with joy, just at there mere sight of me. Slowly nodding his head and grinning, while transfixed on me. It was surely the look of sweet revenge at long last. Even better, because he also knew that come Sept. 12, he would have to pretend to be at least slightly contrite. So this was his one and only chance to glow. And he did so profusely.
Also, it was reported in the Wall Street Journal that in the 8-10 weeks following Sept. 11, 2001, an estimated number of 75,000 German nationals converted to Islam. Though not specified, one presumes that these people were not from the Mid East. Therefore, if it turns out that the conspiracy theorists are right and the Israeli Mossad and CIA did the dirty deed, these 75,000 Germans may be awfully disappointed.
Posted by:TrollsteinMarch 1, 2008 10:56:08 AMRespond ^
This is a hollow shell of what the constitution and bill of rights guarantees. It is by its very nature unconstitutional and needs to be challenged inthe Supreme court. Of course this is now an even more conservative "Supreme Court than the one that illegally appointed Bush president.
Posted by:GuadamoruMarch 1, 2008 5:51:59 PMRespond ^
We are now evolving to a state where thoughts could be legislated and judged. If it were not for entropy as a natural part of life, I would surely become a ground hog and never come out even when it was time to tell the world when spring will arrive.
Posted by:DerikMarch 2, 2008 4:29:51 AMRespond ^
Once upon a time in Latin America, we thought that even though the American government had a tendency toward perverse activities in foreign countries such as supporting right-wing coups, training other countries' military in the art of waterboarding and other niceties, we still held to the belief that the American people at large were basically benign and did not support these practices. However, what are we to make of reality when it spits us certain facts in the face?

Popular myth, and polls, have it that Americans are against this horrendous crime called the Iraq war. If this were true, the public would have supported an honest candidate such as Ron Paul or Gravel. What the rest of the world is informed about by the present situation in which the Clintons, Mc Cains and Obamas are the stars of the media and the most likely presidential candidates is that the people do not give a damn. Do they really care about what is going on in a land their government invaded based on lies? Do they know that their government and they themselves are guilty of killing one million people? We could perhaps have understood the public had they made a mistake once -2000- and made amends the next time around. So for those of us who thought that it was Florida the culprit of Bush being elected the first time, 2004 made us aware that arrogance, indifference and dogmatism were national traits.

Left-wing publications in the US discuss the evil qualities of Bush, Cheney and the neocons as well as the inherent stupidity of the sycophantic media, but who is to blame for all this in the final analysis? Of course, many will say that terrorism is such a terrible beast that anything is acceptable to crush it. This, evidently, depends on what ground you are on. They talk about the horrid examples of militants crashing planes on the Twin Towers and, if you are not convinced, they will tell you about these crackpots who explode themselves in the middle of a crowd? What behaviour could be more beastly than this? When an F-16 -a single one- drops its bombs on a "terrorist" hideout, what damage does it produce? How many times the firepower of one of these militants does the payload of one of these military devices represent? 50, 100 times? More importantly, how many innocent victims does this actual terrorist act cause? The fools say that all of this damage, though regrettable, is unintended and are just "accidents". The US, NATO and Israel have brought destruction, suffering and death to millions of lives, but of course without the intent to do it, so it is not a crime on the order of these subhuman arabs.

What are we to make, furthermore, of a barbaric practice called Guantanamo? Besides the fact that many of the prisoners there are innocent, and the US government knows it, the very existence of such a facility calls into question the civilized nature of its creator. To deny the basic humanity of these people rather than making them so dehumanizes their victimizers. And what is the conduct of the American public in the face of this? They seem more interested in the results of American Idol or Lost. In the end, this indifference may eventually have dire consequences for themselves and the world since the embryo of a police state in the name of national security may be in the making.
Posted by:JimMarch 2, 2008 12:38:33 PMRespond ^
Bush was not fairly elected in 2000 or 2004-electoral injustices, and inconsistent balloting in states like Ohio and Florida ensured this. The fact he has been president for 7 years does not mean he had US citizens approval to be so.

Otherwise I do not dispute, though if we were not complacent perhaps a revolution would've been justified.
Posted by:VVMarch 2, 2008 10:35:38 PMRespond ^
The remdy for these abuse of the Constitution by Bush and Cheney as enumerated in 'The Department of Pre-Crime', lies in the Constitution: IMPEACHMENT! IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY FROM THOSE CRIMINALS IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

Impeach Bush and Cheney NOW

Defense of the Constitution Knows No Party


The Bush administration has illegally seized and imprisoned Americans without benefit of their trial by jury, has spied on Americans without warrant in violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, has lied America into a disastrous war, and has betrayed an American intelligence officer, who was working on weapons of mass destruction networks, to our enemies (Valerie Plame.)

Impeachment hearings against Vice President Dick Cheney are now a distinct possibility, thanks to a recent outpouring of public support for impeachment by Americans across the political spectrum. Your calls and faxes to House Judiciary Committee members are needed to keep up the pressure.

Leave a message for your Congressman, to demand he obey his oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Act now to restore your rights and the rule of law bequeathed to us by our Founding Fathers, which brave men have died defending throughout our history.

Call the House Judiciary Committee

202-225-3951
and demand that Impeachment hearings begin ASAP!





*What Happened to Make This All Possible?

On November 6, 2007, Rep. Dennis Kucinich brought H.Res.799, for the impeachment of Cheney, to the House Floor for debate. It was broadcast on CSPAN. A sudden outpouring of public support for impeachment forced lawmakers to keep the resolution alive. Democrats, most of whom currently resist demands for impeachment, were unwilling to kill the bill with the public watching. Republicans and some Democrats, mindful of impeachment sentiment, voted to debate the bill, but failed. At the end of the day, Americans of both parties had made it clear whose "table" this is, and that they want to see impeachment on it.



For more information go to
NEImpeach.org

ALSO:
WE NEED A NATIONAL FAST FROM CONSUMERISM !! If you want to literally do a FAST from eating- that is your choice- Make sure Congress knows you are also calling for NATIONAL CONSUMER FAST asap - AND A NATIONAL STRIKE !! this is the perfect opportunity to grow the movement !!!!

They dont care if we don't eat, they care if we dont BUY FOOD, GAS, and products that make these corporations money !!! THEY CARE ABOUT THE STOCK MARKET CRASHING ANOTHER 300 POINTS TODAY !!!

www.pledgetoimpeach.org
www.wexlerwantshearings.com
Posted by:Amy HarlibMarch 3, 2008 1:54:31 AMRespond ^
Bottom Line: YOU ARE [deleted]ED!!!! Either pick up a gun and kill the pigs or shut the [deleted] up.
Posted by:JohnMarch 3, 2008 8:54:05 AMRespond ^
Please see my article, "Denial of Due Process to Muslims Disgraces Us All:" http://www.dhafirtrial.net/200 7/11/24/denial-of-due-process- to-muslims-disgraces-us-all/

Published by the National Lawyers Guild, it directly addresses the approach that Jeff Breinholt describes above.

Katherine Hughes
www.dhafirtrial.net
Posted by:Katherine HughesMarch 3, 2008 11:11:05 AMRespond ^
This is all about the First Amendment. Let's not follow the gov't down the path of censorship. After all, censorship is becoming America's favorite past-time. The US gov't (and their corporate friends), already detain protesters, ban books like "America Deceived" from Amazon and Wikipedia, shut down Imus and fire 21-year tenured, BYU physics professor Steven Jones because he proved explosives, thermite in particular, took down the WTC buildings. Free Speech forever.
Posted by:William PMarch 3, 2008 2:11:31 PMRespond ^
Trolstein's fails to mention that it were Israelis who were dancing atop a truck in New York -- rejoicing the collapse of the buildings. These Mossad agents were arrested but later released under pressure from the lobby. While Trolstein's 'personal story' about Saudis is probably made up this story about Mossad agents is well documented.
Posted by:nototortureMarch 3, 2008 4:41:20 PMRespond ^
nototorture:
Actually, I have a local witness to the event, which occurred in Hong Kong (we were both in the meeting). This person will also attest that after the event, (Sept 8, 2001) I asked who the Arab was, to be told that he was part of the extended Royal contingent. My witness agreed (at the time) that the guy looked like he had just done Angelina Jolie and Lena Headey http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=300484
both at the same time and that his pre-occupation on me (the only obvious Hebrew in the room) was MIGHTY odd and we both agreed to that at the time.
Also, I have connections in Law enforcement who were in Paterson, New Jersey on Sept. 11 (I was still in Asia). The Arab and specifically Palestinian-Arab community was so overjoyed, they threw a block-party. The police had to lock-down the parameter, to keep the press away, as they feared the publicity might well lead to riots and violence against the Arabs.
This oft-repeated (but NOT documented) story about dancing Israelis is ridiculous. Assuming the Mossad was involved, which I continue to deny, why would they show off like that? Why not simply go on Don Imus and boast of their crimes? BTW: The failed attempt to topple the Twin Towers in 1993 was an effort to murder 250,000 people. Where are your CRYING Israelis at that failed catastrophe?
Posted by:TrollsteinMarch 3, 2008 6:51:46 PMRespond ^
Had the 9-11 terror attacks been unsuccessful, these evil Mossad members would have sadly, sung "Far from the home I love" from "Fiddler on the Roof" http://video.aol.com/video-det ail/far-from-the-home-i-love-f iddler-on-the-roof-subtitles/190152808
"Far From The Home I Love
How can I hope to make you understand
Why I do what I do,
Why I must travel to a distant land,
Far from the home I love.
Once I was happily content to be
As I was, where I was,
Close to the people who are close to me,
Here in the home I love.
Who could see that a man could come
Who would change the shape of his dreams.
Helpless now I stand with him,
Watching older dreams grow dim.
Oh, what a melancholy choice this is,
Wanting home, wanting him,
Closing my heart to ev'ry hope but his,
Leaving the home I love,
There where my heart has settled long ago
I must go, I must go, I must go,
Who could imagine I'd be wand'ring so
Far from the home I love
Yet there with my love, I'm home.

How can she think we wouldn't understand
Why she does what she does,
Why she must travel to a distant land,
Far from the home she loves.
Once she was happily content to be
As she was, where she was,
Safe in the bosom to her family,
Here in the home she loves.
Who could see that a man could come
Who would change the shape of my dreams.
Helpless now she stands with him,
Watching older dreams grow dim.
Oh, what a melancholy choice this is,
Wanting home, wanting him,
Closing her heart to ev'ry hope but his,
Leaving the home she loves,
There where her heart has settled long ago
She must go, she must go, she must go,
Who could imagine she'd be wand'ring so
Far from the home she loves
Yet there with her love, she's home"
Posted by:Number 12March 3, 2008 7:43:37 PMRespond ^
The time has finally come when the gov can have a criminal or informant lure anyone into a hypothetical conversation, record it, and have that person arrested and locked away. hmm shades of Nazi Germany, it's only a matter of time before our children will be turning us in for conversations around the dinner table critical of the Presidential Monarch, or simply because they are angry for having to put the xbox away and study.
Oh I forgot, these laws are to protect "us" from "them", as long as you praise the "Protectors of the American way", you have nothing to worry about.
24 years for a "jihadi mind"? what the hell does that mean? Child rapists get less than that and the harm they've caused is tangible.
Posted by:poonchkieMarch 4, 2008 1:36:54 AMRespond ^
from bottom to top it appears 911 was an elitest fling designed to satisfy everyone from the owners of the Towers who wanted them demolished, to the Air Force remote control plane operators and the options traders working the airlines puts & calls -- unfortunately there's several thousand interested persons they failed to notify of their demolition plan: many of these subsequent ridiculosities and personages are merely baited distractors to keep the "terrified" public crying "foul," for some other reason(s) than: Bush, Cheney, Halliburton-KBR -- these past seven years have been one very successful and suck'd cess pool of their startling commercial ventures, e.g. Iraq
Posted by:HypnoknodelonMarch 6, 2008 10:56:28 AMRespond ^
German's objection is the last paragraph only restates the government's position that engaging in dissent is a criminal act, and 'terrorist'--there is a difference, but we can't buy into such singular definitions.
Posted by:Doug MilamMarch 7, 2008 2:13:09 PMRespond ^
Trollstien, Your reference to Angelina Jolie is enough to discount the rest of your story as pure hoax.
Posted by:notortureMarch 9, 2008 9:14:08 PMRespond ^
Hmm... anyone who buys a gallon of gas refined from Saudi crude?
Posted by:gregMarch 10, 2008 8:45:54 AMRespond ^
I saw that movie...it was called The Minority Report..starring Tom Cruise
Posted by:chabukaMarch 10, 2008 12:03:08 PMRespond ^
Right on, go get em, G-men!
Posted by:BertMarch 15, 2008 8:01:51 AMRespond ^
Liberals are too dangerous to allow into power.

You all should read more about Neville Chamberlain and less about 911 Conspiracy hokum.

Anyone here read David Mamet's piece in the Village Voice?
Posted by:EOSMarch 16, 2008 7:24:47 AMRespond ^
The implications of this perversion of our laws are far reaching. It is scary, but I think the real story is being neglected. How can the American public sit by and not demand better of their government? Maybe they think that this could never directly affect them. They are wrong.
Posted by:morrison18March 18, 2008 1:50:12 PMRespond ^
Whoa, since when is being militant the same thing as terrorism?
Posted by:geneMarch 23, 2008 1:09:19 PMRespond ^
Nobody read Cointelpro? Right out of the dress wearing directors 1969 playbook...
Posted by:LouisMMarch 25, 2008 9:10:53 PMRespond ^
Ah, you dear folks have never meet the American public - in Oklahoma! They want fascism. They would want the discontents framed by informants shot without trial - no joking. Support for the war is as high as it ever has been, and ignorance and hatred are proud badges of honor. As I see the people around me increasingly diseased by rabid stupidity, I despair - what will become of us? How will we ever turn back legalized affronts to liberty, dissent and thought when a huge mass of people WANT it this way?
Posted by:jenApril 10, 2008 12:53:57 PMRespond ^
Whose afraid of terrorists. Not me.
Posted by:unidioticApril 16, 2008 10:46:54 AMRespond ^
"Anyone here read David Mamet's piece in the Village Voice?"

Yes. It went on forever, and said nothing.

Much like David Mamet's PLAYS.
Posted by:Matthew, BoiseApril 18, 2008 9:34:17 PMRespond ^
April 19, 2008 EU states agree that inciting terrorism on the Internet is a crime; Representatives of the EU's 27 member states formally agreed today to harmonize their respective countries' definitions of criminally prosecutable acts of terrorism by expanding them to include three new types of crimes: "public provocation to commit a terrorist offence, [terrorist] recruitment, and training for terrorism."
4/19/1775 – The American Revolutionary War began with the Battles of Lexington and Concord in Middlesex County ,Massachusetts .
Posted by:wingtipApril 19, 2008 3:42:01 PMRespond ^

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